Reproductive Health Bill

After a heartfelt loss against the Blue Eagles and going through the week that broke Wall Street, let’s go back to an issue which Rep. Roilo Golez of Parañaque urges his colleagues to set aside and then focus on more pressing matters. So this is not a pressing matter? Short term yes, but in the long run, maybe not.

Yes, it is the Reproductive Health Bill. Many Filipinos don’t give a damn regarding the issue mainly because anyone can easily get contraceptives from your nearest 7-11 or Mercury Drug store.

(This is a response to my previous blog entry about the financial crisis in the US which started a thread on contraceptives.)

So why did Edcel Lagman author this bill? He said, mainly “to promote information on and access to both natural and modern family planning methods, which are medically safe and legally permissible. It assures an enabling environment where women and couples have the freedom of informed choice on the mode of family planning they want to adopt based on their needs, personal convictions and religious beliefs.”

Given this, I would like to divide the use of contraceptives into two categories. One used in marriage and the other outside it.

For married couples, the Catholic Church prohibits the use of contraceptives but allows natural family planning. Some people ask, what’s the difference between the two if both ends are not to bear a child? Why not use artificial methods? If they are indeed the same, then I should ask why not use natural family planning if you are saying that it’s the same? Then what have we learned from our ethics class, the ends do not justify the means.

Some people would respond saying that it’s impossible… improbable… unbearable… It’s far easier and more practical to use artificial means. You can get it whenever and wherever you want. But as HUMAN BEINGS who possess something we call self-control, affection and true love towards the other isn’t only limited to sexual activities and can be expressed through innumerable ways. Does it sound better when someone says, he loves me, therefore he can wait instead of hearing someone say, if you really love me, do it for me?

For non-married couples, the act being done outside the marriage covenant is a sin in itself much more if contraceptives are used. Some guy may say, have sex and make a baby? No way man! That’s the point, sex is a beautiful and sacred act created by God for means of giving birth to a child and to bring a wife and a husband closer together and be as one. If the initial goal of the act is not to bear a child only to gain pleasure, then we are contradicting its true purpose and can be considered simply an act of lust.

Now, I want to ask Rep. Janette Garin and all the Filipino mothers, if you had a daughter (I don’t know if she has one), would she allow her daughter to engage in premarital sex? This is a consequence we are assured of if this bill pushes through. Even without a bill regulating the use of contraceptives, we’re going towards a culture of promiscuity, much more if we have something to regulate it.

According to an article in Philippine Star yesterday, UNICEF has a report stating that “99 percent of all maternal deaths are accounted in developing countries with 84 percent  concentrated in Sub-Saharan and South Asia.” UNICEF also said that “4500 Filipino women die from complications related to pregnancy and childbirth every year.” If the author is saying that the solution is contraceptives in order to avoid women dying unnecessarily then I would argue that preventing them to have a child through investing in massive amounts of contraceptives is not the answer. Instead developing all the facilities needed to bring forth a child safely for both mother and child should be done.

Population is not the problem of the country; it’s mainly the government’s wrong allocation of resources and the resources you wonder where it mysteriously ends up . If Lagman really wants prosperity, then why not solve the corruption problem in the Philippines, knowing that we are leading this very unpopular competition in the east-asia region? Is it because corruption is deeply ingrained in our veins that it has become a culture, then why are we giving a chance for another culture, the culture of promiscuity and culture of death to engulf our country?

 For a comprehensive discussion on contraception, you can read this article entitled Contraception: Why Not?

Added on 08/2012

No religion involved, our fertility rate is now at 1.9 (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/254349/economy/business/phl-population-growth-falls-to-1-9-from-2-34-2010-head-count-at-92-34-m), 2.1 is the replacement rate. Math alone will tell us at some point our population will plateau, then dwindle.

On a larger perspective,

More,

79 comments

  1. i agree. i’m on your side re this bill. still the difficulty lies in forming (or reforming) those who have not (or resisted) the privilege of learning what we have learned so far from our formation. medyo mahirap pag-usapan kahit ethics sa artificial contraceptives lalo na pag di pareho ng formational background ang mga nag-uusap; nevertheless, against ako sa artificial methods (though i’m not active in its campaign).

    slippery slope ang pagpasa ng bill na ito. at mahirap magreverse ng effects (malamang repopulation). artificial methods deaden our capacity for the natural (sa case na ito, we train our bodies to be immune against giving birth) strategically, disadvantage sa economy ang long term effect ng bill na ito. kaya nga tinatry naman ireverse ngayon ng mga bansa yung kanilang naunang policy sa population control, at mahirap ibalik ang natural once na-modify by artificial means ang pagka-natural nito.

    kung iisipin nga, strategic resource mismo ang mga tao. ang mga tao ang best asset ng kahit anong bansa (mas halata sa atin dahil sa dollar remittances). its a matter of enabling them to become productive, kung paano hindi maghirap. nagiging reproductive kasi pag hindi magawang maging productive. kaya ang labas tuloy ay nagiging liability para sa atin ang mga tao kung maghihirap lang. paano naman yung mga future john gokongwei natin? kulang lang talaga ang paglinang sa kakayahan ng ating mga mamamayan, at hindi population management ang approach para dito. we should manage productivities instead of reproductivities.

    re artificial contraceptives readily available in the market, siguro dapat ganito na lang yung bill na ipasa: ‘on the use of artificial contraceptives’. required dapat ang reseta ng doktor instead of over-the-counter sa mga store. so allowed lang bumili if under extreme health reasons, at regulated ayon lang sa prescription. then we concentrate on forming (reforming) our doctors and pharmacists re this matter. importante lang muna ngayon ay matanggal ang mga artificial contraceptives sa over-the-counter. then we work on forming the entire population to consciously (we know why we don’t need artificial means) and completely end the demand for artificial contraceptives.

    columnist ka na pala. good for you. i’ll be one of your fan readers and occasional reactor. i’m sure may mga usapin din na hindi natin mapagkakasunduan. pa-autograph pag may published item ka na. good fortune sa iyong career.

  2. It’s unfair when the Church imposes an anti-contraceptives stand in a secular discourse. That’s way too overboard. What we’re talking about is a social policy, that is the policy of the State. If we truly respect the separation of the Church and State, shouldn’t we allow ourselves to be freed from the ‘clout of influence’ by the Catholic Church?
    But in a way, it’s a healthy discourse, that the religious and the not-so-religious engage in debates about this, at least we get to see what every person thinks about. But I firmly believe it’s a transgression of the rights of people who want to engage in sexual activities (yes, apparently contraceptives are not bombs out to kill people).
    And I don’t think it’s going to enforce promiscuity among the youth. It’s a fallacious statement, although very emphatic. It’s like saying, people given power are bound to abuse it. But of course! There’s always a possibility of turning promiscuous but it’s not probable. I mean, there are a lot of countries who allow contraception but they aren’t a promiscuous country.
    And being a pseudo-economist, I think if we get to reduce our population rate, we get to allocate more resources to every Filipino.
    In the end, the question, if ever the bill will be passed, is one of choice. And if we get to afford these people the choice of “using or not-using”, then aren’t we being more equitable?

  3. 1) you can never win a public argument with religion, even if you are right. use a different approach, POV

    2) human sexual urge is a natural human urge, that we unfortunately do not need/want right now ;P in the same way, death is a natural part of life. if you want to ban artificial contraception methods, you should ban modern artificial medical advancements as well, because the natural death process is “created by God” and we shouldn’t “contradict it’s true purpose”.

    explain why sexual urge exists when we are bound to suppress it? why are we created such that it is there before marriage and still there after six children? (refer to number 1)

    3) congruent to number 2, overpopulation IS the problem of the world. we have stretched the carrying capacity at three different times in the past, with agriculture, medicine and technology. we just won’t acknowledge it.

    the last paragraph is barking at the wrong tree, and an argumentum ad hominem. corruption is a different story
    answer this: will it be bad to solve the population problem AND solve the corruption problem?

    4) as with your question to all filipino mothers, you’d be surprised if you actually bothered to ask ;)

  4. It’s natural for us to eat (if we dont, we’ll die). Sexuality is also an essential aspect of our human nature. Unlike eating which is essential for an individual’s survival, sex/procreation is not essential for an individual to survive. It is needed for the propagation of the species. That is why those who seriously believe that a person cannot and should not control our sexual urges are seriously and sadly mistaken. If this were the case, we should legalize rape, incest, pedophilia, etc.

  5. For a secular source of information on the RH bill, please see reproductivehealth.com.ph.

    Not all Filipinos are Catholic.

    RH is not only about contraceptives. Its about sustainable human development, enabling those who are weak, social justice and economic progress.

  6. Filipino Voices discusses the Reproductive Health Bill.

  7. Naalala ko tuloy yung emails :)) Agree ako kina Gen, PJ, at Paul. Pero siyempre may mga tamang punto si Kaiser, pero karamihan from a Catholic point of view. Suggestion nga lang, if you are going to argue with religion (which might only be valuable in a discussion with people having similar beliefs), include references from the bible or statements from the Pope. According to Catholic Catechism, even bishops can err in issues of morality, but the Pope cannot.

    Sorry kung katangahan ang tunog nito sa iba pero.. Hindi bawal magdala ng lapis sa school. Pwede kang pumatay o manakit gamit ang lapis. Kung mabait ka, hindi ka papatay o mananakit gamit ang lapis. Hindi bawal gumamit ng condom. Pwede kang gumamit ng condom. Kung “mabait” ka sa Katolikong relihiyosong paraan, hindi ka gagamit ng condom at hindi mo gagawin ang pinaggagamitan ng condom kung hindi ang pinakasalan mo (at tanging siya lamang) ang kasama mo. Ito ay sa pagiisip na masama ang pre-marital sex at ang paggamit ng condom.
    For more on the Catholic aspect, please view this piece written by Pope John Paul II on Love and Responsibility: http://www.catholicculture.com/jp2_on_l&r.html
    The commandments are there to guide people and show them the right path to true happiness and contentment. However, free will should always be respected. The best we could do as Catholics is to know what is right according to our religion and to try our best to learn and let learn. Be an example, but don’t show off. Enjoy the happiness you attained and hope that other people will follow suit. Wag nang pakialaman ang batas nang dahil sa relihiyon. Laws are not there to make us happy or to adhere to our religious beliefs. They are there to let us function well and to move us forward as a country.

    Having said that, I am probably bound to get “elitist” remarks by saying this: ang problema ay ang raming taong hindi kayang magpalaki ng anak ngunit pilit gumagawa ng babies. Problema ang mga mayayamang kulang sa emotional resources maski isa lang ang anak, at problema rin ang mga kulang sa financial resources na dose-dosena ang anak. Its a matter of responsibility. If you cannot raise your 4 children well with what you have, don’t complain whenever wages are too low to support your family by yourself. If you cannot raise your kid because he/she is not one of your top priorities, don’t complain when he/she throws away his/her life. It’s your fault. Kung gusto, may paraan. Special case na yung nauubusan ng resources, mapa financial man o emotional. What condoms could contribute is this: sa mga taong “makasalanan” na ayaw magkaanak pero gustong magsex, edi di na nila kailangang magkaanak. May condom man o wala, kung gusto talaga ng tao, gagawin niya. Kung gusto, may paraan. Kung may condom, mas malamang walang anak. Ang tawag nga ng iba ay “aksidente” diba? Condoms prevent accidents from happening. Not all, but some. Oo, lumalakas ang loob ng mga tao pag may condom, pero hindi ibig sabihin nun ay hindi nila gagawin pag wala. Maraming sasagot na hindi nila gagawin pag wala, pero gagawin pa rin nila e. Mananakit o papatay ka pa rin, hindi ka lang gagamit ng lapis. With or without condoms, people still have the same choices: to have sex or not to have sex. Stronger temptation, same sin. Hindi batas ang pinanglalaban sa temptation. Utak ang pinanglalaban sa temptation. Utak at dasal at dedikasyon at kabutihan at marami pang iba. At kung temptation din lang ang paguusapan, unahin mo na yung alak bago yung condom.

    Education is key.

  8. there is nothing inherently wrong with promiscuity if you are single and the sex is consensual.

    if you think sex outside catholic marriage (as i take it civil marriage is not legitimate to you) is a sin then so be it.

    if you are a devout catholic, kahit lunurin ka pa ng condoms, hindi ka gagamit nito. the church is afraid because the reality is, their followers are not that devout.

    pray do tell, where is an overpopulated country that is not corrupt? even rich countries realise that resources are finite. unless you can somehow hyperextend the territory of the philippines, it’s not meant to cope with a certain number of people. it’s the first law of thermodynamics. something which not even the pope’s ex catedra rantings can bend.

  9. janette garin · ·

    To the author:
    Thanks for taking time to consider the bill in your thoughts. We will respect your objection but allow me to clarify some points. Yes, i have a daughter and i wouldnt like her to engage in premarital sex. Reproductive health education is not part of my original bill. However, i don’t see it as promoting promiscuity especially if u review the age appropriate way of informing children about sexuality and the morals, values and the detriment it will cause to their body if they engage in premarital sex. The bill does not promote distribution of contraceptives to jkust anybody. It calls for a systematic approach from the natl to the local thru established maternal care clinics, handled by local health attendants. Its a system wher huband and wife and the health attendant know each other. When you give out vaccines, do you inject just anybody? When RH education was accepted by majority of the members, i respected them but it still has to come to a vote in the plenary and chances are, that provision will be deleted. Thats the beauty of true democracy. We hear all sides; debate and let everybody speak then proceed with ammendments (where you can delete provisions). Why then is this being curtailed by some anti-RH solons? What is there to hide? Why don’t we allow people and the public to hear the debate and answer issues and fallacies as well as confusions that cropped up because of distorting the bill? God never taught us to suppress knowledge to people. God never taught us to dictate individual opinions and force people to abide by it. Why don’t we allow a healthy debate and hear both sides then let the people decide. If majority of the Filipinos would like to uplift their lives and provide a better future to their children, then let’s respect them. Thanks. Janette

  10. RH bill is okay? puro kasi kayo mga manyak. SEX IS A NORMAL URGE– yes, and you can’t live without it IF YOU WERE A DOG. look at the streets. its only galisin dogs and their bitches who will agree with you sickos. i know i’m human

  11. Countries are never corrupt even if they are overpopulated. The Philippines is not corrupt. Many government officials are, but not the Philippines. This is why we use the phrase “corruption in the Philippines.” Governments are not corrupt either, but saying that the government, as a whole, is corrupt is probably understood as saying that its head is corrupt.

    There are densely-populated countries and dependencies perceived by their own people to have low occurrences of corruption within their governments. (Sino nga naman ang makapagsasabing corrupt ang bansa nila kundi sila, diba?)
    Some are:
    Hong Kong (as an isolated part of China)
    Netherlands
    Singapore
    Vatican City (where the head of state is the Pope)

    The Philippines is not overpopulated. Metro Manila might be, and so might some other areas. There are enough resources for everyone, but having a capitalist economy entails that resources will never be properly distributed to satisfy everyone. Don’t get me wrong. I like capitalism.

    Territories have indeed been extended (OFWs). Resources from other countries are being brought in. Still, the bigger problems are the growths of the unproductive population and the underemployed population.

    Maski sobrang off-topic na, sasabihin ko na rin lang na ang pinakamalaking issue ko pa rin sa Pilipinas ay ang liit ng pagpapahalaga (base sa sweldo) sa mga pulis at guro. Teachers and people who deal with security need to start getting more for what they contribute or could contribute to our country. Parang call-center demand din yan e. To have choices based on quality, you need to have quantity. Pag marami nang gustong maging guro o pulis, tsaka ka lang makakapili talaga. Siyempre maraming matitino at magagaling na pulis at guro, pero sobrang laki ng ikagiginhawa ng buhay natin kung mas marami ang matitino sa kanila. Pag may matalinong nabaliw at nagpaka Joker, hihintayin pa ba nating may magpaka Batman?

  12. ay dapat pala “Sino nga naman ang makapagsasabing corrupt ang government officials nila kundi sila”.. ahehe :D

  13. paulsalarm · ·

    One of the arguments for population control, or rather to slow down population growth, is to help families save, reduce budget deficit, etc. That is, slower population growth is believed to free us economic resources needed for economic development. Actual experience is mixed, to the point that population growth seemed irrelevant to economic growth. Latin America provides the best example of government-sponsored family planning. From the 70s to 90s, population growth slowed down, but the economy also tanked. Examples of high population growth with good economic performance is of course, the US after WWII, France and Italy in the 1900s, and to a certain extent East Asia in the 1960s-1970s.

    Now I find it difficult to accept that we could lose so much from population growth, when we have actual money lost from worsening corruption (public and private). Transparency International places the Philippines at 141 in its corruption perception index (1 is the cleanest).

    http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table

  14. 1. The Philippines is not overpopulated.????????????????
    Gee go on deluding yourself and on the meantime try to learn more about science and ecosystem management. It’s not because you see all these land around you, you think there is space for more. The Netherlands? They are so worried about their population growth that they are thinking of reclaiming more land from the north sea.

    2.Territories have indeed been extended (OFWs)
    And I suppose you think these countries are so keen to keep on accepting our OFWs??? The UK which has practically the same land mass as ours, and is a G7 nation is nearly overpopulated at 70Million. Because the high population strains the resources available, they are now CUTTING down the number of workers from outside the EU. So I guess we will continue sending slaves to the middle east for below minimum wage.

  15. the philippines is not overpopulated. you only think so because you are so fucking nearsighted. it’s true problems are that 15-20% of its population is concentrated in metro manila, which is about 2% of total philippine landmass.

    the problem is our LOW PRODUCTIVITY. if we could rival singapore or hong kong’s productivity–have better educated higher-skill workforce–then congestion would not seem like a problem.

    sa amin, kapag may bisitang dumating habang kumakain kami at medyo kukulangin ang ulam, DINADAGDAGAN NAMIN ANG PAGKAIN; hindi namin BINABAWASAN ANG KAKAIN (what, you’ll make your guest leave?) population is not a problem if you reason like this without the mainstream bullcrap arguments propagated by CAUCASIAN COUNTRIES WHO ARE RUNNING OUT AND ARE FEARING THEY WILL BE OVERRUN BY US INDIOS. Singapore and Germany (at the least) are now giving incentives to have more children since they are running out

  16. Yes. The Philippines is not overpopulated. “Overpopulation,” as it is used often in today’s world, is the term people use to justify over-consumption. This is also why I described the countries I mentioned as “densely-populated” rather than overpopulated, but I do understand that population density does not define your so-called “overpopulated” state. However, the Philippines still does not fall under the lack-of-resources definition. We do not lack sustainable resources YET. Pangit lang ang distribution.

    Metro Manila, when isolated, just might be overpopulated. The country definitely isn’t.

    “Delusion” aside, let’s not believe everything we read and learn from books or all these “sciences.” Scientists will always have something “scientific” to disagree on. This overpopulation issue is probably one of them. If you’d rather believe that the Philippines is overpopulated, then so be it. Pero sana may specific lacking resource kang tinutukoy.

    So the Netherlands is worried about their population growth.. Where did all the corruption talk go?

    I do not think that all countries are so keen to keep on accepting our OFWs. Nevertheless, territories have still been extended somehow. However, as I mentioned earlier, the Philippines is not overpopulated. The bigger problems are the growths of the unproductive population and the underemployed population. Some would argue that there aren’t enough jobs. Marami namang trabaho e, karamihan lang nga ayaw kunin ng mga tao. This does still lead to underemployment problems, but that’s another issue. Ang kakulangan ng karapat-dapat na trabaho ay hindi tanda ng overpopulation. Siyempre malaking issue ang poverty, pero resulta kasi yun ng mga problemang tulad nito.

    And please do not ever again refer to OFWs as slaves. That’s just wrong.

  17. I refer to the jobs offered in the middle east as slavery. I apologise. I do not mean to imply that ofws are slaves.

    Anyways,if you so insist that the philippines is not overpopulated…

    But interesting that you pointed out that we have an unproductive and underemployed population. Why not solve this problem first then before adding to it?

    Maraming trabaho? Ows?

  18. Sorry Kaiser nawala sa topic. Hehe. Kay Nash, kaya mo nang sagutin yan :D Kung hinde, agree to disagree nalang? :)) Back to the topic nalang :D
    Di ko malaman kung seryoso yung Provost :)) Its nice to see that Iloilo Representative Janette Garin, the actual author of the bill, replied :D Maganda siguro kung makakapagusap kayo ni maam Janette, diba Kaiser? Hehe

  19. Yes I agree to disagree strongly to misinformed opinion on overpopulation.

    I put my trust in science and not those primates wearing red robes and mitres.

    And to Rep. Garin. Well done! I support that these RH issues should be pushed forward and the public be informed.

    Ultimately, the decision falls on the individual and that has to be respected but it is the role of the state to protect the sanctity of life not just from conception and throughout the ENTIRE lifetime of the human making sure resources are adequate.

    Anyways, that’s it. I think I might be lucky to tonight and will engage in protected premarital sex with my girlfriend.

  20. genebib,

    Provide the countries which allow contraception, then tell me if they are promiscuous or not, then if you think they aren’t then provide me with stats and facts that say they aren’t. You’re an expert in numbers right? from your undergrad…

    “And I don’t think it’s going to enforce promiscuity among the youth. It’s a fallacious statement.”
    I want to save this statement of yours and whatever happens to our dear country, I want to look back at this in the not so near future. Maybe let your future daughter read this too.

    pj,

    Your point in number 4. You’re simply implying what you think they will answer. Really I’ll be surprised? I think not. Ok lang ba tanungin ko mother mo? Don’t think for the mothers. They have their own brains so they can do their own thinking and answering. Give me facts. Are you a mother? Look at Ma’am Janette’s reply.

    Sparks,

    Not all Filipinos are Catholics. Right.
    But not all Filipinos are Muslims.
    So why is polygamy allowed by the government for Muslims?
    The same treatment is being asked by the Catholic Church to respect each other’s teachings.

    nash,

    The reason why I heard someone say there are less rape cases nowadays because girls also want it. Consensual. Then you are really after sex and pleasure. Then Hedonistic Society here we go!

    About the first law of thermodynamics. If you are saying that the internal energy which we equate to the population increases because work done on the system minus work done by the system is positive, then we will definitely increase the energy. But analyze this, lowest terms. There are 1000 people in the Philippines, 100 of which are productive. That means 10% productivity. If I cut down the population to 10% of 1000 then we now have a population of 100. But the productive population also decreased to 10 which is still 10%. Even if you reduce the population you decide how many times you want, nothing will happen because there’s no increase in productivity. Look at noypi’s comment. We haven’t maximized/utilized everything in the country then you’re now here asking to reduce the number of hands that can do work. Why?

    Instead of teaching a couple how they can avoid having children, why not teach them something which they can use to earn money?

    Nash again,

    “So I guess we will continue sending slaves to the middle east for below minimum wage.” Keep on guessing. Ok? But you know why they are below minimum wage? The reason is not overpopulation I’m sure. But if you’re saying productivity and education then I will side with you.

    Ge nagagaya na tuloy ako sayo.

    Nash: Manong, bakit po below minimum wage ang kita mo sa ibang bansa?

    Manong: Iho, yan ay dahil overpopulated ang Pinas.

    Can’t really resolve the direct connection.

    Nash again,

    Yes maraming trabaho. It’s either Filipinos are not fit for the job (underqualified) or they don’t want the job. And by educating them they will create their own jobs.

  21. I am for education. Maituturo naman yung reproductive health academically. Mabuti nga naman kung nalalaman natin ang mga options natin. Pagdating sa pag-scrutinize ng mga ipapasang bills, marami akong hindi naiintindihan. Di ko ma-detect kung may loopholes. Siguro tulad ng ibang bills na pagkarami-rami ang mga provisions, malamang may loopholes din sa RH bill na sana hindi makasasama sa mismong pagkatao ng tao. Siguro yung pagpondo sa mga artificial contraceptives at yung paggamit nito sa konteksto ng pagtatalik ang sinasabing nakasasama sa ating pagkatao. Bakit nakasasama? Kahit hindi simbahan ang magsabi, usapin ito ng etika (nakabubuti o nakasasama). Lalong umiinit ang issue pag kasali na ang simbahan.

    Naiintindihan ko kung bakit ayaw iwan ng simbahan ang issue na ito. Kagyat ang relasyon ng katawan at kaluluwa ng tao. Hindi hiwalay na katawan lamang o kaluluwa lamang ang umaaray. ‘Aray ko!’ – kagyat silang magkasama. Interes niyang pangalagaan ang likas sa tao tulad ng dignidad. Hindi lang basta mistikong nagbabawal (di tulad ng dati), inaaral niya kung bakit (natututo siya). May nakikita ang simbahan, kahit mga hindi relihiyoso, na masamang epekto ng ilang features ng RH bill sa kalikasan natin bilang tao. Kung hindi naman nakikitang nakasisira sa kalikasan natin bilang tao, malamang hindi ganun ka-involved ang simbahan sa usapin tulad ng pagpasok ng kaparian sa political parties (against ako rito).

    Kung gagamitin ang discourse ethics ni Habermas, dahil hindi nagtutugma ang interes ng iba’t-ibang panig ng society at may kanya-kanya rin tayong basehan ng etika, hanapin natin ang neutral ground kung saan walang magrereklamo. Pangalagaan natin ang mga ugnayan natin. Hindi naman kailangan burahin yung buong bill. Important matter ito pero hindi naman kelangan ipasa agad para makahabol sa budget. Pag-isipan uli. Masalimuot na proseso ang pag-amyenda sa mga naipasang batas. Marami pang pwedeng gawing revisions tulad ng ginagawa ng mga mambabatas natin kahit sila sila lang ang nagdedebate sa pagpasa ng bill. Malamang partikular naman ang simbahan kung anong features ng bill yung ayaw niya (may interes ang simbahan na dapat pa ring i-recognize tulad ng ibang grupo ng society) at hindi lang naman simbahan ang grupong umaayaw. So tanggalin na lang siguro yung particular part ng bill na hindi mapagkasunduan.

    Kung isyu ng kahirapan ang problema, multidisciplinary ito kaya pagtutulungan natin ito with the expertise we bring from our chosen disciplines. Kung popular demand ang artificial contraceptives to augment the problem, mahirap din para sa aking sabihin na ibang solusyon na lang ang gawin natin – business din maging artificial contraceptives supplier at pwede i-tax ng gobyerno (dagdag revenue). Maraming options kaysa radically modifying kung ano ang natural para sa atin. Pwedeng magbigay ng incentives sa mga may kaya to adopt. Pero paano kung ayaw ipa-adopt at ayaw rin namang maghirap ang anak kahit gusto pa ring makipagtalik? Madali kung gagamit ng artificial contraceptives. Pero bakit nga ba uli sinasabing nakasasama ito sa pagkatao natin?

  22. Halo! Jolls jumping in here. I’m very much pro-choice; I’ve always, always (kahit nung nandun pa ako sa Pilipinas and under the thumb of the Catholic Church) believed in the right of each individual to choose what is right for them as long as they are not hurting anyone else in the process. I believe the same regarding reproductive health–give people the right to *choose*.

    Diba binigyan tayo ni god ng freewill? (not that I believe in God anymore, but for the sake of argument, sige, I will pretend) Doesn’t that include the free will to choose whether to “sin” by having sex outside marriage, or using contraceptives, or aborting? In the end, it is between them and their god or conscience, diba?

    Not everyone has the same religious beliefs.The Catholic Church should butt the hell out of political discussions. Let people choose what is right for them.

  23. Agree ako sa link mo. Bad policies do create poverty. Tingnan mo dito sa US–failed economic policies are leading to a Wall Street Crash, which means loss of jobs, which means poverty. Kaso, reproductive health bills are a part of bringing about development. There’s a whole bunch of research articles about how if you give women reproductive choice, their quality of lives increase. See here: http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/m12edsum.shtml. Kung i-gogoogle mo, marami kang mahahanap tungkol dito.

    The point is, let people *choose* what is right for them. They can choose to use family planning, whether natural or artificial, or they can choose not to plan at all and “leave it up to God.” Everyone should be given education about the full range of choices so they can choose what is right for themselves.

  24. It is not the job of the priests and bishops of the Catholic Church to meddle into politics and secular affairs and it is said so in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (excommunicate me later hehe).

    That is the job of the Laity.

    The Pope recently had emphasized on this, reminding us that the specific role of the laity “consists in instilling the Christian spirit in the temporal order and transforming it according to the divine plan.” He affirmed that “a significant aspect of their mission” is “the exercise of politics.” Hence, it is necessary “to encourage them to live this important dimension of social charity with responsibility and dedication,” in order to promote “justice, honesty and the defense of true and authentic values, such as the safeguarding of human life, marriage and the family,” he added. In this way, “they contribute to the real human and spiritual good of the whole society.” (plagiarized hehe)

    However, in the world today, the laity lacks the initiative to do their duty! Kailangan pa natin ng pari to lead the way that we are supposed to go. Kaya tuloy , tignan nyo si Cardinal Sin, sina Bishop, sina sister… the extreme case na yata ung kay Gov. Ed Panlilio. This should not be the case but we give them no choice – the laity is weak. That explains these lay empowerment seminars pushed by the Church. That is why the Church, in her best effort to guide her lay faithful through the parishes, initiates signature campaigns.

    We should do our part. The Church without the laity’s works is crippled.

    One may be tempted to think that the Catholic Church, established by Jesus Himself, is democratic, saying the hierarchy should follow what the ‘majority’ of the faithful wants. Insane!!

    The Mystical Body of the Church would always have one Head, like a body has one head, who is Jesus Christ. And who is His Vicar on earth? The Pope. This means that he is Christ on earth. He has the power and authority of Jesus. This authority is ‘shared’ with the Bishops all over the world for as long as they are united to the Pope.

    That is why when the Catholic Bishops in the Philippines condemns the RH Bill, they are authorized to do so and the faithful should follow since this proclamation is in line with the Pope’s permanent stand against the use of contraception (which I’m sure has exceptions but I leave it to you to study our doctrine). They didn’t just picked a side and defend it stubbornly, but it has to be for the good and I repeat, not just for their good but for the whole Church.

    Catholics should dispel their false hopes on the Church ever changing its infallible stand (thanks to the Pope) and let the ordained do their job – to form and guide the laity.

  25. Mr. Fernandez,

    I’m just using logic. It doesnt mean that if A happens, then it would automatically result to B. No rocket science or statistics really needed.
    (Ergo: If contraception is allowed, it doesn’t mean that the world enters into a world of promiscuous culture.)

    [Comment about the link: There are at least two views on population. Some economists believe that “people = power” but others say “too many people take too many resources, so let’s reduce the growth rate”. So either way it could be justified. And you could be a follower of any.]

    BUT the Reproductive Health bill is NOT only about the population or contraception. I took some pains in reading the bill and it’s not what the Church says it is. It’s not saying “CONTRACEPTIVES ARE GOOD SO USE IT”. Try reading it, maybe you’d see the other side.

    It’s also about providing health care and education to BOTH MEN and WOMEN. It promotes equity, choice and ability to make independent decisions, especially for women who are blessed (or burdened) with the ability to bear a child. It’s likewise targeted to promote a SUSTAINABLE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT.

    How can the Church VEHEMENTLY oppose and strike the entire bill down? Simply because it might use artificial means of family planning? I just don’t see the point. Maybe you could enlighten me.

    There are a few things that we may not like, but it’s not fair to jump into conclusions. And probably after you’ve read it, you might get a better picture.

    [Link:Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008]

    That’s it pansit.

  26. I detected some redundancy: –> (Ergo: If contraception is allowed, it doesn’t mean that the world enters into a world of promiscuous culture.) But I assume you get the point. =P

    @FEL: nobody’s perfect right? so no law is perfect. and the loopholes or gaps in the legislation are supposed to be filled-in by the executive or administrative agencies, once the bill becomes a law. and i’d like to think that when the legislative enacts the bill, it had the best intentions. we’d all like to think that way.

  27. I’m sorry if I came in too strongly, but we Muslims (the informed ones, at least) are also against this bill. We are strongly pro-life and my interpretation of my beliefs states that I gotta agree with the Catholics (that one blogger so rudely alluded to as “primates in red”) on this issue. Thus, whatever others may think, I’d just like to tell people like garin et al that the more intellectual of the Philippines practicing Muslims/Christians will now know WHICH ARE THE CONGRESSMEN/SENATORS WE WILL NOT BE VOTING FOR NEXT ELECTION. Maybe they should think about that too, because our beliefs are being trampled upon by this new legislation.

    CONDOMS AND CONTRACEPTIVES SALES ARE NOT ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW. WHY DO YOU STILL NEED A LAW TO PROMOTE IT?

  28. Gen,
    I hope this would enlighten you. Check out the comments of nielsky and cocoy826.
    I just finished reading a blog (Actually a comment, it’s too long but really worth reading.) along this topic.

    For all those who want to have a public argument without using religion, read this.

    http://secondlady.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/diverse-constructs-on-the-passing-of-the-reproductive-health-bill/#comment-49

  29. This would be my last argument here using religion. Since this year is a year dedicated to St.Paul, I will quote him. St. Paul posed to his fellow citizens of the Roman Empire. “Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good, acceptable, and perfect” (Rom 12:2).

  30. Of course the common perception is that population growth causes poverty, so reducing population should also reduce poverty. But the facts do not bear this out. Neither do basic economics.

    The idea that population growth causes poverty comes from the ubiquitous zero-sum-game fallacy: the idea that the economy is a pie with only so much to go around. But the economy is not a pie — economies can grow, and population growth can actually help development. A growing population means more labor, which along with land and capital are the main factors of production.

    no real correlation between population and poverty. If population were a determinant of poverty, it would be hard to explain places such as Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea and the Netherlands. All have high population densities and yet are wealthy. The United Kingdom has about three times the population density of Ghana, and eighty-one times the per capita GDP. There are many causes of poverty, but population is not one of them.

    Literally billions of dollars have been spent to reduce populations in developing countries, but have yielded no real economic progress. We know the factors that create economic growth and development: consistent rule of law for all citizens, property rights, sensible regulation, and a culture that encourages and rewards entrepreneurial behavior. These traits have never existed perfectly anywhere on earth, but the degree to which they have been present reflects the degree to which prosperity has been achieved. Conversely, where they remain absent — as in much of the developing world today — poverty and misery are found in their stead.

    Sexual morality of contraception and abortion on women view them as moral evils and a violation of their dignity.

    We are losings billion and billion of pesos in corruption.If any of personnel in the government are honest,our country has been prosper for long time.
    I don’t understand these people,they want to control the Filipino Human race,yet,they allowed foreigners to invade and live in our country.

  31. Since hunger is caused by the present social system, it would seem that it is not overpopulation which causes the crisis in our country. But this view is shortsighted. A reformed use and understanding of agriculture would make it possible for Philippines to feed its present population and even the expected population into the next century. But, eventually, Philippines will face a population crisis. Certainly population growth rate will make Philippines incapable of feeding her people in the best of circumstances.

    These population control programs simply don’t work. Moral preaching, sex education, available contraceptive measures and even force do little to reduce populations in very poor people. This is because poor people need lots of children. They need them for reasons:
    As workers in the farm fields. As old age insurance for parents who have no other security. Because in a life of low material gratification, raising children is among the few joys and delights one can have. Because they suffer high children mortality rates, poor people must have many children so that even half of them died enough will survive to one,two or three.

    Only economic development can effectively lower the birthrate, and that economic development–providing old age security, and some level of material comfort, almost invariably lead people to voluntarily limit birth rates. Such a rise in material standard is also accompanied by higher levels of education, which further contributes to voluntary birthrate limits.

  32. since hindi pala pwedeng linisin yung bill, gugustuhin kong ibasura ito at i-pressure ang congressmen na ibasura uli ito tulad ng mga naunang panukala tungkol sa reproductive health. effective ba talaga yung signature campaign?

    tapos, gawa uli ng bagong bill. convention muna para mailabas lahat ng gustong sabihin bago isulat as bill para smooth sailing na sa sunod. sa issue na ito, mahirap talaga kung aasahan lang ang ilang grupo ng mga kongresista para magpanukala.

    i’ve received reports that companies who produce contraceptives have vested interests in this bill kaya minamadali itong bill na masama sa budget. maaring pro ang karamihan sa artificial contraception; nevertheless, against pa rin ako.

    hindi pala compromise ang sistema sa usapin ng batas. battle of ideologies pala. at sorry na lang daw ang talo. but who would just accept a loss? syempre, gugustuhin niyang bumawi – sana lang hindi destructive. we all want progress… the ethical way.

  33. kaiserfernandez · ·

    Another non-religious argument by Julian Simon. Google him up for his profile.

    “Idiots like Erlich and organizations such as Planned Parenthood, the State Department’s Agency for International Development and NFPRHA constantly sound nonsense warnings about how overpopulation produces disaster and poverty. There is absolutely no relationship between high populations, disaster and poverty.

    Population control idiots might consider Zaire’s meager population density of 39 people per square mile to be ideal while Hong Kong’s population density of 247,501 people per square mile is problematic. Hong Kong is 6,000 times more crowded than Zaire. Yet Hong Kong’s per capita income is $8,260 while Zaire, the world’s poorest country, has a per capita income of less than $200.

    Planet Earth is loaded with room. We could put the world’s entire population into the United States. Doing so would make our population density 1,531 people per square mile. That’s a far lower population density than what now exists in New York (11,440), Los Angeles (9,126) and Houston (7,512). The entire U.S. population could move to Texas and each family of four would enjoy 2.9 acres of land. If the entire world’s population moved to Texas, California, Colorado and Alaska, each family of four would enjoy nine-tenths of an acre of land.

    So-called overpopulation problems are really a result of socialistic government practices that reduce the capacity of people to educate, clothe, house and feed themselves. “

  34. I invite everyone to view this group and to join the debate:

    http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=27617482169

    My arguments are already posted.

  35. hi to everyone..i agree with kaizer……….SHE IS SO RIGHT..!

  36. kaizer kudos. gusto ko lahat kayo maka sex. he he he. Pero, alam nyo I love my girlfriend. We haven’t had sex but you know its worth it. ikakasal na kami, at hindi kami nag pre marital sex.

  37. cherry de la cruz · ·

    “The right of the other ends when the right of one starts”…RH is all about RIGHTS, however, to those who are against it, IT’S ALL ABOUT LIFE!To our dear legislators LEAR TO UNLEARN!MABUHAY ka KAIzeR!

  38. What is the impact of the reduced population growth of other countries on economic development?

    Reduced population growth coupled with an outstanding development policy environment produced the “East Asian miracle” something that has eluded the Philippines, even while it is geographically in the region. Lower dependency ratios, a large working-age population and a growing economy resulted in rapid economic development.

    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Thailand are among the first group of less-developed countries (LDCs) to achieve low total fertility rate (TFR) in the world. From the 1960s onward, these countries abandoned the idea that a large population was a source of strength. This assumption was replaced by the idea that population growth was an impediment to development goals.

    Between 1975 and 2000, Thailand’s per capita income grew eight times, Indonesia 6.5 times and South Korea 10 times. The Philippines could only manage 2.6 times but it had the highest population growth rate among the three at 2.36 percent a year on the average.

    The East Asian miracle can be attributed to these countries taking advantage of their ‘demographic dividend’ or the rise in the rate of economic growth due to a rising share of working age people in a population. The demographic dividend was made possible by reduced fertility.

    The East Asian demographic transition of the past fifty years is the fastest demographic transition to date. Modern transitions are faster because countries gain the benefit of knowledge, experience, or technology developed by others.

  39. The Philippines has a large working-age population, but why does this not translate into economic growth?

    While the Philippines has a large working-age population, the dependency ratio is equally high. Moreover, not all who belong to the working-age group are gainfully employed.

    For every 10 working adult, there are 7.2 dependents. There are 51 million Filipinos of working age (15-64 years old). Of these 4.1 million are unemployed and 10 million are underemployed.

    “Demographic dividend” (or the rise in the rate of economic growth due to a rising share of working age people in a population) does not occur automatically. It is achieved through the right combination of national policies. Without the right policy environment, it is possible that the Philippines will miss the opportunity to secure growth.

    The demographic dividend is delivered through three main mechanisms – labor supply, savings and human capital.

    As long as the labor market can absorb the labor supply, per capita production increases. Sluggish economic growth unable to absorb new labor will lead to a large unemployed/underemployed working-age population.

    A large working population encourages the growth of savings, improving the overall prospects for investment and growth in the country. However an economy unable to generate wages that exceeds subsistence levels is not likely to generate savings.

    A working population able to save will invest in education and health – essential investments in human capital. The long-term gain is a society that is more productive, promoting higher wages and a better standard of living.

    The three mechanisms of demographic dividend – labor supply, savings and human capital – are all highly dependent on the national policy environment.

  40. Is it sound reasoning to claim that “Because we’re a young population, we can afford to export workers?”

    No. Labor export is not a sound long-term development strategy. Filipinos are in effect investing resources on people who will spend their productive years overseas and pay their taxes (to finance social services) in another country. Current migration policies in rich countries require high-skilled workers to fill the gaps in their postindustrial economies – prompting brain drain in the Philippines. Remittances are a short-term solution to an economy in a permanent state of crisis.

    While the benefits of labor export are self-evident, the costs are not necessarily so. Aside from the stress put on families having to cope with loved ones gone for long periods of time, what are the societal costs? Many developing countries, including the Philippines, allocate a substantial amount of government expenditure on subsidized education. As the government encourages labor export, local taxpayers are in effect shouldering the cost of educating a worker who will spend much of his/her productive years overseas. Migrants will also be paying taxes to their respective host-countries, not the Philippines.

    Emigration in the past few decades was spurred initially by the dislocations of the global economy in the early 1970s, and then institutionalized by successive administrations after Marcos. What was meant to be a temporary phenomenon has become a permanent feature in Philippine policymaking landscape.

    In the first instance, ‘exporting’ workers yields monetary benefits in terms of remittances. There can be no discounting the economic safety-net provided by a migrant member of the family. It can be said that these families are providing for themselves the services and economic security that government is unable to provide.

    In recent years, advanced industrialized economies have also been selective in their labor import. More and more they require high-skilled workers, prompting brain drain.

    Development economists question the long-term sustainability of migration and remittances as a strategy to pursue development. The infusion of external capital from OFWs would help spur economic growth if there exist institutional mechanisms to channel these into productive, and not merely consumptive, activities.

  41. kris 09297156451 · ·

    sya nga naman….kahit ndi ko yan nabasa alam ko yang republic health bill………wag na ngang gumamit ng condom oh kung ano ano pa….all you need to do is to control you’re self….then kung ndi nyo mapigilan gapusin nyo isat-isa…mwahahhaahh….simple arkitik!

  42. THe Constitution of the Philippines Article 15: The Family SEC. 3. states that:

    The State shall defend :
    (1) The right of spouses to found a family in accordance with their religious convictions and the demands of responsible parenthood;

    The RHBill imposes (and mandates) on all citizens things that are against our (as a Catholic) religious conviction and our idea of responsible parenthood. We have a right that the state should defend.

  43. Reproductive health bill??!!..ano pa nga ba.. ang pinag-aawayan ng church and government rightnow…saken naman..,’noh nga ba pakialam ko jan eh bata pa naman ako….,kaya lang.. as one of the citizen of this institution… napapaisip lang ako sa church naten… ano nga ba ang ipinaglalaban nila…ang wag pag gamit ng artificial contrceptives..pero alam naman nating lahat na ano mang paggamit ng contraceptive, artificial man o hindi is not 100% safe…
    Pero aminin na kasi naten…lahat sila ay may kanya-kanyang point of view..but they also have something in common…
    Try to see my point…
    According to the ten commandments of God..thou shall not kill..but..,rightnow, if we are not going to use contraceptives many will die because of hunger..pwede rin namang gamitin ang natural contraceptives… but see my point na not all people in our country are sexually in control of theirseves..so they should use at least the artificial contraceptives…
    Para naman sa government…it is really kind of them dahil at least may nag-isip ng solution sa problem ng ating country..pero they should not just recommend people to use contraceptives..kasi yung ibang mga youth eh namimis interpret sila imbis na wag magtry eh nag tatry kasi meron namang contraceptives…
    TRY TO THINK PEOPLE…PWEDE NAMANG MAG ABSTINENCE AH…IYON ANG DAPAT NA ISULONG NILA!!!

  44. Kaiser Fernandez · ·

    You’re capitalized last sentence is correct. If you join the debates and be in the side of the ones supporting the bill, they’re considering it a premise that people will have a hard time, can’t or will not abstain.

  45. “they’re considering it a premise that people will have a hard time, can’t or will not abstain.”

    Abstinence or NOT should be left to the people to decide. The RH Bill provides people with more information and then leaves it to them to make that decision.

    “The RHBill imposes (and mandates) on all citizens things that are against our (as a Catholic) religious conviction and our idea of responsible parenthood. We have a right that the state should defend.”

    How about the rights of citizens who are not Catholic? Or the rights of those who are Catholic but are not practicing? The use of contraceptives are allowed in Buddhism and Islam.

    “This is because poor people need lots of children. They need them for reasons:
    As workers in the farm fields. As old age insurance for parents who have no other security. Because in a life of low material gratification, raising children is among the few joys and delights one can have. ”

    But how will they get the money or resources to educate or feed the children for that length of time until they grow up to be earners?

  46. hi uli. maybe we can review HB5043 again. i now find it written maliciously under the cloak of good intentions. though it claims it seeks our good, some of its provisions deliberately ignore the principles we have already settled before.

    i appreciate the economic reasons raised. but still, we cannot confine the problem to just economics. certainly, this is also an ETHICAL ISSUE. sabi nga ni noypi: “kapag may bisitang dumating habang kumakain kami at medyo kukulangin ang ulam, DINADAGDAGAN NAMIN ANG PAGKAIN; hindi namin BINABAWASAN ANG KAKAIN”

    lately, i found the bill biased towards abortion. although it says it is against abortion, its provision for IUD (which induces abortion) as essential medicine and management for post abortion complication implies providing for a system for inducing abortions. actually, kanina ko lang na-gets after reading an article on the constitutionality of HB5043. http://www.philstar.com/archives.php?aid=20081023153&type=2

    ilan sa mga sections ng bill na pinaka-against ako: Sec9&10 suggest pregnancy as disease and formalizes a contraceptive culture which strategically is not sustainable. Sec21(a) Par.2 penalises refusal to perform voluntary ligation/vasectomy on the ground of lack of spousal consent. It inhibits personal values of our medical practitioners, and tramples on the most personal and intimate responsibility of spouses. Par.5 states malicious provision of allowing conscientious objection based on religious grounds while forcing the conscientious objector to immediately refer to one who would not object (konsyensya pa rin yun).

    ilan pa sa mga ayaw kong sections: Sec12 reduces maturity-appropriate to age-appropriate education on maturity-sensitive topics, and further pushes the function of the family in forming their children as secondary instead of first promoting parent-child relationships. Sec17 forces employers to fund reproductive health care supplies (kasama contraceptives, IUDs), should employees opt for them. Sec21(c) penalizes failure to comply with Sec17.

    ngayon medyo komplikado na rin para sa akin yung bill in a sense na sobrang dami niyang gustong gawin sabay sabay at kaya siguro mahirap na rin i-separate yung mga unethical sections from the appropriate ones. Mas mainam sana kung i-separate yung parts patungkol sa reproductive health, sa responsible parenthood, sa population policy, etc. into different bills.

    let’s also try to review the encyclical on the proper regulation of birth, HUMANAE VITAE. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html 10pages long at times new roman 10. this issue has already been decided before based on the deposit of our faith if ever we get to talk about our faith. Muli, hindi ito basta mistikong nagsabi kundi pinag-aralan niya ito. Masasang-ayunan ang mga ito kahit sa ating sariling pagmumuni, hindi nga lang siguro kasing-pormal.

    although we recognize loopholes in legislation, still there must be a standard on its acceptability and we cannot allow just any fault to infect the bill. malamang lahat tayo gusto ng sustainable human development. i think HB5043, in its best intentions, still misses the point. i prefer to junk the current bill, then draft a cleaner bill taking advantage of dialogue instead of letting only a few legislate in such sensitive topic. then maybe the bill’s passage would go smoother.

  47. lately, i found the bill biased towards abortion. although it says it is against abortion, its provision for IUD (which induces abortion) as essential medicine and management for post abortion complication implies providing for a system for inducing abortions.

    such scenario is highly probable. we are very good in ‘palusot’ to suit our personal interests. is this loophole still acceptable?

  48. it is true that we are human’s and our body has a cycle of parang we must do that thing… Pero the fact that we are human is we have our conciousness and judgment to know and of course to do what is right. yes, there are times na let say nag-iinit tayo pero we are not animals naman para dapat laging itolerate ang pag-iinit na ito.. we should be thankful nga na atlis hindi na block ng condom o IUD o anumang contraceptive ang mga sperms na bumuo sa atin. and then ano ang karapatan natin na pumigil sa mga buhay na maaring umusbong. and then before population, why not solve CORRUPTION!!!

  49. Kaiser Fernandez · ·

    “How about the rights of citizens who are not Catholic? Or the rights of those who are Catholic but are not practicing? The use of contraceptives are allowed in Buddhism and Islam.”

    Rights! Justice! The same thing the Catholics are asking the government. If our brother muslims are allowed to have multiple wives, then allow the citizans to abide by the Church and not let the government tell what we are supposed to be doing with our lives the same thing the government is not telling the Muslims not to practive polygamy. Because we respect each other.

    Anne, so you are saying that by not passing the bill, we will therefore impede the non-practicing Catholics from holding on to their rights? When we pass this bill, list down the things that you think these non-Catholics and non-practicing Catholics will get.

    “But how will they get the money or resources to educate or feed the children for that length of time until they grow up to be earners?”

    Now why didn’t I think of that. Why not use these funds for education or to feed the children?

  50. 1) i like what nash said
    “there is nothing inherently wrong with promiscuity if you are single and the sex is consensual.”
    from a completely secular point of view, how can you contest that?
    you are attacking the point by branding it “hedonism”? that is again a fallacy

    2) for me, population and productivity wise, that’s not the issue. the main concern is “do i want to have kids?”. for me, it is about choice

    “people will have a hard time, can’t or will not abstain”
    -what about “don’t have to–“?

    3) kaiser: “Really I’ll be surprised? I think not.”
    “Don’t think for the mothers.” <- well you just did
    ok, Ma’am Janette is one mom
    What I said stands. You’d be surprised if you bothered to ask. I was. especially the new generation mothers, not our moms.

    4 kaiser: “Not all Filipinos are Catholics. Right.”
    “But not all Filipinos are Muslims.”
    “So why is polygamy allowed by the government for Muslims?”
    isn’t that the point? they are giving people a choice. the RH bill is a choice.
    the bill doesn’t impose anything! choice choice choice!!
    we are taught evolution in school. do you creationists rant? you have a choice not to accept right?

    =========================================================================================
    couldn’t we conclude it this way:
    let’s give people a choice with the RH Bill
    as for the religions
    well, if a person IS a devout catholic (or something), then the RH Bill shouldn’t affect him
    it’s a choice
    =========================================================================================

    PS: i’d like to meet provost (sino nga pala siya?)

  51. i won’t comment much about fornication (eg, consensual sex among singles) since it concerns interior dispositions; nevertheless, axiological ethics recognizes an objective hierarchy of values inherent in the persona as discussed in max scheler’s phenomenology of man.

    HB5043 actually imposes a lot. one’s choices affect other people’s choices. the bill inhibits much of our choices (and choices of the unborn as the bill provides a system for induced abortions) we already settled before to protect. Sec21(a) inhibits personal values of medical practitioners. Sec21(c) forces employers to fund contraceptive devices, ligation, vasectomy to employees opting for them.

    Sec22 imposes fines and imprisonment to guilty offenders by refusal to comply. Sec21(a)Par.5 maliciously obliges the conscientious objector on religious grounds. the bill practically ignores prior rights. malamang di limitado sa mga katolikong institusyon ang aangal.

    moreover, Sec23 appropriations will eat budget away from strategically productive endeavors. Sec21(a)Par.2 bypasses spousal consent before undergoing ligation and vasectomy. Sec12 further marginalizes the function of the family in enforcing MANDATORY age-appropriate sex ed. Sec10 disorients human capacity for childbirth. masyadong masalimuot ang pagkagawa sa bill na ito.

    if we reduce the bill only as choice to have kids or not, that’s not HB5043 anymore. maraming issue na kinakaladkad itong bill na ito. again, masyadong komplikado yung bill. let’s take advantage of dialogue to craft a more appropriate reproductive health bill. peace.

  52. I’m with you borj!

    Mga idiots (sori talaga, hindi ko mapigil) lang ang papayag sa ganyang bill. Eh demonyo ata ang nagpossess sa mga authors niyan nung isinulat nila. Anu ba naman? Hindi ba nag cathechism sina Lagman at Garin? Yan ang malaking tanong! You will never be a Christian ( or at least a moral human being) and at the same time a supporter of the bill. Progress will NEVER justify murder. At kung pupuksain lahat ng corrupt officials, yan ang totoong progress.

    Mga hayop lang ang nag i-intercourse for the sake of pleasure. The ‘s-thing’ is created primarily for procreation. Nadedegrade ang pagkatao natin sa tuwing mag-iintercourse outside that purpose. Kahit nag-exclusive school ka pa, may MP4 or nagsisimba kada linggo, wala ka na ring pinagkaiba sa kuneho o babaeng aso o kahit ano mang hayop sa mundo dahil (1) wala kang discipline at control (2) sinusunod mo lang ang iyong ‘id’ or pleasure instinct (3) wala ka na ring isip dahil mga walang utak (puso at kaluluwa)lang ang hindi makakaintindi ng consequences ng nasabing bill.

    Pasensya na but I’m itching lang din. Sana matauhan na yung mga tao.

    Kudos sa yo Kaiser! Sana madaming pang tao katulad mo. Puro hayop-naka-anyong-tao na lang kasi ang nasa paligid… hehe.

    Piss off na sa mga nagsulat at taga-suporta ng bill!!! Mag-school kayo ulit!

  53. There is no other GOOD choice than to heed God’s law. To deviate from it is bad choice so let’s say na lang na wala tayong choice!!! We have NO RIGHT to commit free sex for the sake of pleasure. It’s a holy thing. It is a gift from God if and only if it’s pure.

    It is right lang na the Church protests. We are morally and spiritually corrupted na din kasi ano! They have to explain to people why we should say a BIG NO to RH Bill. Contraceptives are offering to the devil.

    Hay naku, may be you should first review the Bible tapos the Bill, okay?

  54. speaking of the Catholic Church responding, i really recommend that we also review the encyclical on the proper regulation of birth, HUMANAE VITAE. it’s 2pages longer than HB5043, but you can think of reading it like a love letter.

    the encyclical’s intended audience is not limited to catholics but is addressed for all men of good will. Par.23 highlights the church’s appeal to public authorities to safeguard both the moral law and the freedom of the citizens.

    the issue on birth control has already been resolved since contraception became popular. the Holy Father assures us an authentic interpretation of the moral law while taking into consideration the social situation of his time, which we bring up again in discussing HB5043.

  55. Good one! =) Down with the CULTURE of D.E.A.T.H and UP for LIFE! EVERYTHING as in EVERYTHINg must be under the DIVINE LAW!

  56. What’s wrong reasoning against the bill using religion as a standpoint? most filipinos are catholic, and just in case you’re catholic and stand for the bill, then you ought to admit it– unlike that bastard edcel lagman–that you are contradicting Church teachings and thus are unfaithful Catholics (grounds in itself for excommunication). Let’s stop pretending and reasoning out with all sorts of excuses, because the issue here seems to be pre-marital sex, long condemned by the Church as sin, and your little member dangling between your thighs can control your whole being and really get you to wax eloquent about how PMS is normal and not a moral issue. Please cut the crap, unfaithful Catholics.

    The faith is not a turo-turo, wherein you choose only the beliefs you like. You either take it all down, or none at all. Stop diluting the purity of the Church. Go join the Born Agains, faggot-christian churches, or some other dudes who stand for free choice and all that crap.

  57. Kaiser Fernandez · ·

    I just have to put this somewhere, it’s a reply to the comments here

    http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/the_filipino_front_in_the_culture_wars/P0/

    Unfortunately the discussion is already closed.

    ___________________________________________________

    DJB,

    Do you believe in heaven?
    or in hell?
    I hope in both.

    Don’t tell me just because you idolize Rizal then it’s still fine if you get excommunicated. We don’t know where Rizal ended up. Correct me if I’m wrong but from my history classes, Rizal implied in one of his books that if God is really merciful, then He wouldn’t allow so many people to go to hell. Good one, but still, no one knows.

    I have been joining these discussions on the internet for more than a month now. I had my own post on this.

    http://kaiserfernandez.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/reproductive-health-bill/

    I tried to discuss starting with family, relationships and God, but some people didn’t want to argue because some claim that when God enters the equation, you can never win. So I then had to discuss using social consequences, economics, politics etc.

    In the end I had my PERSONAL CONCLUSION with the youth nowadays. I got this from observing people in facebook. There are far more people joining the “I SUPPORT RH..” than “I OPPOSE…”
    One reason could be as a JUSTIFICATION FOR THEIR ACTS.
    Controlling your body is no joke. Everyone has to struggle. When I say everyone, I say everyone. There are people who really think that premarital sex, contraception, abortion etc. is normal and there are those people who know they are wrong but still continues to do/use them because they have become slave to their bodies. The latter has already accepted that there’s no way they can control their tendencies, so the only thing to do is find a way to justify their acts and that is supporting what they deem would be in line with their cause.

    Honestly ask yourself if you have become a slave and just finding ways to justify your actions. Don’t tell me the Church is meddling in your affairs. If what the Church demands is easy, simple, fun and requires no sacrifice, (pointing to abstinence, chastity) then VIRTUE would have never been formulated.

  58. Hi,

    I went to the RH conference yesterday in UP Manila.

    I caught Lagman saying something not contained in the bill.

    “Private Schools in the Philippines can opt not to follow the amendment. They can choose if they want to teach sex education or not to, it will be their loss.”

    Why is he saying stuff not in his bill? Does he have to do that just to answer a question of
    UP Manila medicine student? Does he also say things in other forums not contained in the bill? What’s that?

  59. LET CHILDREN BE CHILDREN! REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH BILL is UNHEALTHY and IMMORAL BILL

  60. Some filipinos are like puppets, what you say they will do it. like when you say free contraceptives they will agreee.

  61. wednesday · ·

    Let us not be hypocrites, it’s already a reality in our country that the age of sexually active people are getting younger.

    Information on making intelligent choices would be more beneficial.

    Population is not the problem in our country? the mere look at the number of people who are out of jobs already bring about such fact that we are indeed in a crisis.

    The probability of a graying population? It doesn’t mean that if something could happen, it will happen. THe bill upholds to regulate the population problem. It doesn’t even impose on the people to have a limit on the number of children they would have. It informs the people to actually be responsible on having children.

  62. Ipe Espinosa of Bacolod City · ·

    Here are some of the potential consequences of the passage into law of the Reproductive Health (RH) Bill (HB O5043) which have dawned upon me; to wit:

    1.0 BIG BUSINESS, BIGGER MONEY. If RH Bill passes into law, condom suppliers may earn from the Philippine government (which will be mandated to distribute free condoms to 4.9 million youth aged 15-27), PhP 2.548 billion every year. (Or 4.9 million youth times 1 sex act per week times 52 weeks per year times condom usage of 1 piece per sex act times supplier’s price of P10 per piece of condom.) The assumption of a youth engaging in sex at the average of once a week, I am afraid, is in order and conservative. It will be unthinkable for a young student to obey the reminder of his RH teacher or older relatives that abstinence is the most effective birth control method when that young student is aware, the government is duty-bound to provide him or her with free condom for his or her sexual cravings anytime, anywhere. Condom supply is therefore a big business if RH Bill passes into law. Nevertheless, what is bigger money is when government canvassers, signatories of purchase orders, receivers of condom deliveries, as well as check payment signatories and releasers may connive with condom suppliers to price the condom at P 100 per piece instead of P 10. The over price of P 90 per piece of condom will be distributed among the involved government officials. Therefore, due to the passage of the RH Bill, there is an opportunity for a PhP 25.48 billion condom scam to happen.

    2.0 BOARS AND GILTS. These 4.9 million youth who are recipients of the government’s free supply of condoms may naturally crave for sex like animals (considering the additional enticement from the immodest mass media and the internet pornography). The young male may act like boar while the young female behaves like gilt that is in heat. This promiscuity or multiple sexual relationships, is probably just a take off point. The Law of Diminishing Extra Satisfaction (as adopted from the psychological and economic law of diminishing marginal utility) that governs pure human and animal endeavors including sexual relations will be fully operational. In other words, if sex will be a preoccupation of the Filipino youth, then the satisfaction that a young male derives having sex with female partner/s, will decrease or wane eventually. He then ventures to partner sexually with his fellow male/s to seek new level of satisfaction. He may push further by engaging in bisexual activities. But most likely he will end up as a pure homosexual. A young female may also follow the same path as she craves for sex and sexual satisfactions. She may graduate as a pure lesbian. But this scenario will not be glaring overnight. It will take a generation – ten years span. This may then translate to the need of a new advocacy – to support the passing into law of the bill on same-sex marriages and divorce in the country.

    3.0 POPULATION REDUCTION. The ultimate aim of RH Bill, I understand, is achieving economic prosperity (particularly for the poor) however through population reduction approach. In case the RH Bill is passed, its success will be measured therefore by, among others, whether its respective population reduction target (PRT) is attained. And the critical factor in attaining PRT is the effective distribution and use of condom of the 4.9 million Filipino youth in particular. Effective means here, making a condom available for free, on demand of the youth, either male or female, anywhere, anytime. As mentioned above, this will cost the Philippine government, PhP 2.548 billion every year. If the government will have limited or doesn’t have that amount of taxpayers’ money (for condom purchase and distribution) then the full attainment of the PRT will be jeopardized. Thus RH Law may prove to be ineffective to reduce population in the country. If this is the case, other population reduction measures or Bills will be therefore sought. So there will be a future need to support for the passage into law of Pro-abortion Bills as well as of Pro-euthanasia Bills.

    So then, to all the RH Bill advocates, if your support for the passage into law of RH Bill (which may lead to additional opportunity for corruptions in the Philippine government, to transformation of the Filipino youth as homosexuals and lesbians, to eventual murder of unborn babies and to future mercy-killing of senior citizens, etc.) makes your Mama proud of you, then go full speed ahead of your RH Bill advocacy. Otherwise, please resign as a RH Bill supporter and lobby harder for our legislators to vote against RH Bill.

  63. These will becomome an intense debate for the next legislatures.

  64. Testing lang kung lalabas yung pic ko hehe.

    Hope you and your family’s doing fine.

  65. ano ba yan…..alam naman natin na rapid population growth is a couse of poverty,..i AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!y??????????according to my research f noon pwdng sundin ang simbahan na humayo at magpakarami but see our country now..napakalaki n ng population at d na sapat ang resources samhan p ng curaption…..anu nlng mangyari s phil.and bd pinapatupad na rin ng ibang bansa ang biil n yan??????????ellow gcng phil…….kung gusto nating makaahon s kahirapan maicip tau!!!!!!!!!

  66. michelle · ·

    it’s fair enough to have your own opinion about the morality of the use of contraceptives and of abortion. Perhaps it is even valid to conclude that we are inclined to promiscuity and immorality as a society. However, that does not mean that any one of us should be deprived of our right to choose what we deem right for ourselves. It is a fantasy to believe that the use of contraceptives or the practice of aboriton would fall to a halt should this bill not be translated into practice. Why not allow the people of a way to make their choices safely, without the fake drugs of Quiapo? Have faith in the individual and allow him/her to make the choices for his/her own salvation. Besides, you can not impose your own moral ideologies onto others; there are others who do not agree with your stance. That, and we should not be condemned should ever we commit a mistake; let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    Basically, I’m saying, let it be available for those who decide for themselves that it is for them.

    No fourteen year old has any business being a single mother because of a bad decision.

  67. as a nurse i do agree on reproductive health, since i witness lots of abortion and abandoned children in the hospital..i really hurt me that some babies did survive but were greatly affected by the attempted abortion. i just want the people to know that we need to stop the uncontrolled population of the country..
    also as a usual scenario in the street many children shout for food, shelter and love…please lets help each other and ourselves..

  68. Kuya Caesar · ·

    @Lanie

    Thanks for the comment.

    Based on what you narrated here from your experience, I’m leaning towards lack of education. Why spend money for condoms and pills rather than using it to educate the people? The bill does not want to address the root cause of the problem.

  69. Kuya Caesar · ·

    @Ailyn

    Your facts are bent. Please provide statistics or studies to help us learn more.

    And you mention something about your research? Please enlighten us. :)

  70. Kuya Caesar · ·

    @Michelle

    I agree with most of your comment. True that I cannot impose my own ideologies. I’m here to help impart the readers of what I believe in. It’s their choice if they believe it or not. I only have one purpose here, I know the Philippines is far from being the best country but I’ll do my best as an individual to avoid making it the worst. :)

  71. the goal of the bill was not bad…

    if we just think that we filipinos are that disciplined and responsible i dont think there can be bad effects on approving the law..

    it does’nt mean it’s anti life..IT NEVER MEAN..

    as far as i know, it’s upto us on how we are to deal with it..
    SEX which only want lust is always a sin..that’s different things..

  72. Speaking of the Catholic Church responding, i really recommend that we also review the encyclical on the proper regulation of birth, HUMANAE VITAE. It’s 2 pages longer than HB5043, but you can think of reading it like a love letter.
    The encyclical’s intended audience is not limited to Catholics but is addressed for all men of good will. Par.23 highlights the church’s appeal to public authorities to safeguard both the moral law and the freedom of the citizens.
    The issue on birth control has already been resolved since contraception became popular. The Holy Father assures us an authentic interpretation of the moral law while taking into consideration the social situation of his time, which we bring up again in discussing HB5043.

  73. i agree w/ kaiser. we should also look on the indirect bad effects of rh bill. it shouldn’t be limited only to the obvious ones…people will now have reasons to justify their actions whatever those things are.the younger ones will now be more courageous to do things (like PMS or promiscuity) ’cause they know that it is legal to use contraceptives even if the bill says it’s only for a certain group of people.i think we are giving wrong ideas to younger ones…what will be next after rh bill?legalizing abortion?same sex marriage?…instead of spending enormous amt of money on countless debates & sessions re rh bill, why not spend it on things that are very much achievable & benefit a lot of people? why just don’t our leaders improve medical facilities & equipments, provide well trained & skilled health care workers to areas noted to have poor health outcome, & providing good education to children by spending budget allocated to complete school facilities.does using contraceptives assure all mothers/married women that they will have a better life after that?will it improve their relationship w/ the people around them?we should also take into account the side effects of these contraceptives.not all women can use ocp’s cause they might have existing illness/es that might worsen w/ concurrent use of these medications…we are giving wrong information to the younger generation & before we know it, their future will based on the ill effects of what we’ve thought of as good for them…

  74. FOR EVERYONE:
    IF BIBLE READING IS A PART OF OUR DAILY LIFE, THEN WE WOULDN’T BE ARGUING ABOUT THIS ISSUE OR ANY OTHER ISSUE AT ALL…TRY READING ROMANS CHAPTER 1 VERSES 18-32 & GALATIANS CHAPTER 5 VERSES 19-26 & THEN THE WHOLE OF REVELATION…

  75. Kuya Caesar · ·

    Philippines is ranked 16 in world’s top economies by year 2050.

    http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/12/worlds-top-economies-in-2050-will-be/

    And I quote,

    “…demographics – the size of your working population – along with the opportunities to flex that muscle help determine long-term economic trends”

  76. hindi lang nman catholic church ang oppose sa rh bill .. even ang ibang religion oppose rin dito . yet, catholic nation po ang pilipinas kaya catholic ang mas vocal sa pagpapairal ng moralidad .

  77. Passing of bill is business….
    The same reason why we have expensive medicines than other countries like India.This is because some elected officials who are supposed to protect us are protecting the business.

    Four years ago, the price of feeds for fish (fish cages in Balingasag Mis Or.) was only php 450p per bag. There were only two cages in that area. After two years there were already 200+ cages and feeds is 800p+ per bag. Now the price according to a friend is 1000+. A lot of the operators wanted to sell their cages.

    The same thing happened to our agriculture. Who would want to farm if the possibity of gaining is too slim because of the high cost of fertilizer etc.

    Let us look at our lawmakers. What is the percentage of total bills passed and the bills that would really promote local entreprenuership/businesses, which would then mean more employment. We could hardly reach 1%. Some are only mask of a very selfish intention. We lost a lot of money and opportunities in that den. In reality we don’t need a lot of those laws.

    Now they are passing the problem to the people, the very people they promised to protect, to give decent lives etc..

    There are still good people in that den but only very few. A lot earn their living there at the expense of the interest of the many.

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